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EWU Bob

BLM Bureau Of Land Management And Trespassing

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There seems to be a lot of misinformation and confusion regarding public BLM land, mining claims, and public access to BLM Land on YouTube.

I have to answer the same questions over and over again, and I thought it would be a great time to educate the public on public land. I will just link them here to this thread when they say something silly about public BLM land.

Feel free to jump right into the conversation.

I will attach different documents to this thread, and if you have any more to attach, please do so.

The most common misconception I see on YouTube regarding BLM and Mining Claims is that owning a mining claim (unpatented), makes it private land. Here was a comment from this morning:

001DesertRat

Quote

@ Explore With Us - ". . . plus it's on Public BLM Land, meaning it's owned by the public and it can be used by anyone." - NOT NECESSARILY ! - If you check with the County Recorder for that area & the BLM , I think you'll find that that is a current, legal MINING CLAIM and the people maintaining that cabin are paying annual fees ("Taxes") to the BLM, & recording it annually with the County Recorder for the USE of the land. Basically "Private Property" as long as it's Recorded and the Fees are paid on an annual basis.

As many here already know, owning a mining claim and paying the small annual fee does not grant one exclusive access to the land. Here is a quote from the attached BLM document, that you can also find here:

The surface of an unpatented mining claim is NOT your private property, the ownership remains with the United States. The BLM or Forest Service has the right to manage the surface and surface resources on an unpatented mining claim. This includes recreational public use of the area and public access across lands covered by the unpatented mining claim.

To put it another way:

A mining claim on public lands is a "possessory interest." This means that a mining claimant has a limited right to the location for mining or milling purposes only. No deed accompanies this right. It does not grant exclusive right to "vacation" or "fish" on the land to the claim holder. If the surface use is not otherwise encumbered, anyone may enter upon public lands for recreational purposes. 

Mineral claims are not a homesteading program. The federal government requires an initial payment to file a mining claim, followed by a annual maintenance fee. In addition, each of the individual states or counties may have their own recording schedules and fee requirements that a prospective claim-holder would need to research. Source

The next misconception is that a mining claim owner can keep people off their land. Again, according to the BLM:

Can I keep the public off my claim? The public has the conditional right to cross mining claims or sites for recreational and other purposes and to access Federal lands beyond the claim boundaries

BLM Mission Statement:

BLM Mission Statement It is the mission of the Bureau of Land Management to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations.

Patented mining claims are no longer public land. Once they are patented, they become 100% private land. They do not show up as being owned by the BLM.

Since October 1, 1994, Congress has imposed a moratorium on BLM accepting any new mineral patent applications.  Source

Public Use Cabins

BLM manages several public use cabins throughout Alaska.   Few are located near roads, and most are accessible only during the winter.  Some cabins are available on a "first-come, first-served" basis, while others need to be reserved in advance. 

Most cabins are rustic with primitive amenities, such as wood stoves for heating, propane cookstoves and lanterns, and pit outhouses.  Users need to be prepared to "rough it."

There are 4 shelter cabins along the Iditarod National Historic Trail and 12 public use cabins in the White Mountains National Recreation Area. There are also free first-come first-serve trail shelters along the Pinnell Mountain National Recreation Trail.

Contact the Anchorage Field Office or the Fairbanks District Office for more details on Public Use Cabins.

Source

Steven's Camp - Stevens Camp is a popular camping area located at the North end of High Rock Canyon.  It is a convenient and accessible camping area that provides a good base camp for exploration of High Rock Canyon and the surrounding uplands - rich in game and not many people.  There are four established camping areas at Stevens Camp, including a large site near the free use cabin. The cabin site(s) includes amenities such as a vault toilet, picnic tables, fire pits and a grill. The cabin itself is available for public use on a first-come first-served basis and includes amenities such as running water (must be treated prior to drinking), a wood stove, a shower and hot water heater, and connections for generator to provide power and lights to the cabin.  There is a 14 day maximum stay limit.

The cabin is full most of the summer, so don’t expect to be the only person looking to use the facilities.

This old home has an interesting history. From what I remember reading in Nevada Magazine, this old home was once owned by a country music star, although I cannot remember his name. I found another source that says something else about the history, so who knows who is right, but plenty of photos here: http://www.rimworld.com/brx/stevenscamp/index.html

Source

Massacre Ranch - Located along the historic Applegate Trail in northwestern Nevada, Massacre Ranch is a primitive cabin that is open to recreation use on a first come first serve basis. The cabin has a wood stove, lights and electrical outlets (generator required), a table, and an outside fire pit. Water may not be available on site and all water should be treated prior to use. There is a 14 day maximum stay limit.  Massacre Ranch sits at over 6,000 feet above sea level and can be a comfortable location in the heat of the summer.

Source

And just to add another to the short list, http://www.boxcarcabin.com/.

In regards to BLM leased land:

Most public lands administered by BLM are open year round to public use. The public can use these lands for recreation unless the lands have been officially closed to fire danger or other emergency hazard.

Public roads, thoroughfares or waterways may be used to gain access to public lands. The public cannot cross private lands to reach public land if no public thoroughfare exists. The landowners permission must be obtained before crossing private lands to reach public lands.

Leasing does not alter or restrict authorized public use; therefore, lessees cannot maintain locked gates, signs, or other devices on public lands. Some lessees participate in a formal program in which BLM lands can be closed to public use IF a corresponding amount of private land is made available to the public. Such lands must be clearly posted with open and closed signs. Any questions should be referred to the appropriate field office.

Source

Another comment I get so often is, "Just because it's on BLM doesn't mean it's not a patent land" or something to that affect. Correct me if I am wrong, but land that has been patented is no longer public and is private land. I have checked this with the BLM GloreRecords and county assessor records. Every time I find a patent listed in the BLM records, and I cross reference it with the county records, it always shows up as private land in the county records. Therefore, this should be a non issue if you are using county records to research a piece of real property. Backcountry Navigator and MyLandMatters does a good job,but it's not perfect. I think the county records are the most reliable source of information on this. Am I missing anything?

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So basically , I’m gathering . It’s like a playground or national forest. You have permission to be there. Bring the whole family. They have a few rules. But use the pavilion for a party or reserve it. If camping isn’t prohibited then great! No time limit on how long you can stay even better! If this is off limits to employees . Don’t go there! I’m trying to simplify understanding in a different way. Am I kind of close? 

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It's a completely different agency than a National Forest. It's not that you have permission to be there, you, as a citizen, literally own it, but the BLM manages it for the public. 

In a National Forest, there may be private parcels or leased land, but not so on BLM Land.

You can camp on undeveloped BLM land for up to 14 days, but then you have to move to a new camping location. There are public use cabins on BLM and other Federal lands where people can also camp for up to 14 days. There are also many abandoned buildings, ghost towns, etc. located on BLM land. 

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One important thing to note is the "conditional right" of the public to cross unpatented mining claims.

The public cannot interfere with exploration or mining activities.  The public may also be excluded for legitimate safety reasons (open holes, heavy equipment operating, blasting activities, etc.).  The latter is usually done with fences, which usually require some regulatory approval or come about through some regulatory requirement (BLM, USFS, MSHA, state mining oversight agencies). 

You are correct that county records are, generally at least, the best resource for determining the status of property.  Since almost everywhere in the US collects property taxes at the county level (some cities do, as well), the counties have an interest in maintaining highly accurate ownership and transfer records. 

There are rare cases where ownership disputes drag on for decades (or longer), as is the case with at least a portion of Ione, NV.  I haven't looked at those records lately, but I recall seeing some conflicting information between the county and Federal records.  But even basic research will bring that to light, and then it will give you reason to be on notice that something isn't quite right, requiring further investigation. 

In NV, probably the more confusing issue is water rights.  There isn't an 'unowned' spring, seep, or well out there that I've been able to find.  Then you really get into some arcane legal concepts (beneficial use, domestic use, senior vs junior rights) and the need to really dig into both current and sometimes historic records. 

 

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2 hours ago, EWU Bob said:

Check out this retards comment, just itching to shoot someone for trespassing on PUBLIC BLM LAND:

privaeland.JPG.1771a6026361105f6e07f7a26c089ad3.JPG

How stupid can you be, you don't need a mining claim on private property, it's your land! 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClpAHP2Af7ZwknJcq7VydrA

Some private property has another person that holds a mining claim on the mineral rights under their property.  When you purchase property it should be stated whether mineral rights and in some cases water rights are included.   

 I agree though that clown is a full tard. 

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1 hour ago, That other Dave said:

Some private property has another person that holds a mining claim on the mineral rights under their property.  When you purchase property it should be stated whether mineral rights and in some cases water rights are included.   

 I agree though that clown is a full tard. 

Good point Dave, in cases where you don't own the mineral rights on your private property, a company can come in an make a claim on the minerals, but even in that case, you would usually see no trespassing and private property signs. I don't think I would ever buy a piece of land where I also didn't own the mineral rights on the land. 

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42 minutes ago, EWU Bob said:

Good point Dave, in cases where you don't own the mineral rights on your private property, a company can come in an make a claim on the minerals, but even in that case, you would usually see no trespassing and private property signs. I don't think I would ever buy a piece of land where I also didn't own the mineral rights on the land. 

Damned straight.  Could be billions in gold under there.   Or.  Just dirt.  But I agree definitely keep that in mind when buying random property in the middle of nowhere. 

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So many comments on the latest video from people who need to be directed over to this thread. Someone even tried to tell us the cabin was a "private residence", then promptly deleted their comment after seeing the location on the BLM maps. 🤣

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I came across a gate on BLM land saying it was for some ranch beyond the small block of BLM land. Think it said you had to get permission to go through. However, not 100 feet away was a public access entrance with a non connecting road and a sign saying it dead ends in 2 miles. Wtf...  

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Just now, Stretch said:

Can people just go and build what ever they want on BLM land? 

No, people can't build whatever they want on BLM land. 

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How are all these doomsday houses etc still on the land and why doesn't BLM just demolish them ? 

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10 hours ago, Stretch said:

How are all these doomsday houses etc still on the land and why doesn't BLM just demolish them ? 

It depends. A lot of them may be illegally built.

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2 hours ago, EWU Emma said:

It depends. A lot of them may be illegally built.

 

Thanks Bob and Emma, thought they would have to be knocked down of illegal. Just invade someone gets injured from one and takes legal action etc 

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This is why many people keep the locations secret as the BLM has been known to go out and knock them down. 

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48 minutes ago, EWU Bob said:

This is why many people keep the locations secret as the BLM has been known to go out and knock them down. 

Plus vandals who destroy amazing locations for fun! 🤫

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It's the same with mine tunnels, the BLM has been actively closing mines, so most people who enjoy exploring mines will make up the names of the mines the explore and keep them secret. 

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Just now, EWU Bob said:

It's the same with mine tunnels, the BLM has been actively closing mines, so most people who enjoy exploring mines will make up the names of the mines the explore and keep them secret. 

BLM lurking looking for mine names...

recess GIF

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Lol looks like one of Emma's husbands. How do you do you find these mines ? Love watching ewu explore

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15 hours ago, Stretch said:

Lol looks like one of Emma's husbands. How do you do you find these mines ? Love watching ewu explore

Research.  Years ago, the first internet search engines started providing easy access to vast quantities of data.  Privacy implications aside, those same search engines (minus a few and plus a few) have increased the amount of data we can search, providing results in less than a second or two. 

But, not all the data is online, so libraries are incredibly useful as well.  Books, many out of print, are very helpful, as are local historical societies. 

Sometimes, you just stumble upon one while out roaming the trails. 

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On 1/21/2020 at 7:58 AM, desertdog said:

Research.  Years ago, the first internet search engines started providing easy access to vast quantities of data.  Privacy implications aside, those same search engines (minus a few and plus a few) have increased the amount of data we can search, providing results in less than a second or two. 

But, not all the data is online, so libraries are incredibly useful as well.  Books, many out of print, are very helpful, as are local historical societies. 

Sometimes, you just stumble upon one while out roaming the trails. 

I came across this website and the maps there a number of years ago.
http://www.offroadinghome.com/nevada/nevada.htm
In particular, the map of Nevada mines!
Be forewarned, the coordinates are not exact, but will put you in close vicinity.
The maps can be opened in Google Earth. I also have them on my phone/GPS, imported into the GPS app I use pretty much exclusively now, MAPS.ME

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On 1/20/2020 at 12:28 AM, EWU Bob said:

No, people can't build whatever they want on BLM land. 

Or permanently install their own mailboxes, pointers, etc. Just saying...

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